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fuel injection
Written by douglasvanb on 11/28/2010 at 05:10 am

Thanks everyone for your thoughts! No matter what the topic, the IPCRC knows
all.

I'll see if I can come up with some designs in the next month or so. My travel
and work schedules are going to be pretty busy until after the 25th so nothing
concrete will be done before then.

I would like to use parts off of other bikes. Looking at the NT-700, the
throttle body assembly (16400-MEW-L01) includes the throttle bodies and
injectors. No room to tune the volume between the throttle bodies and the
valves. Also it appears to be a single unit with both throttle bodies
connected. If the angle of the cylinders is different between the NT-700 and
the PC-800 (I suspect it is based upon other engine drawings), it won't fit
quite right. Also I suspect the throttle bodies are smaller diameter on the
NT-700 as it is a smaller engine. Does anyone have an NT-700 kicking around
that they'd be willing to take the throttle bodies off of to do some
measurements? Bonus points if you have a PC-800 with the carbs off that you
could do a test fit with! :-) If it was a good match, that would make my job
MUCH easier.

Putting loops in the intake pipes between the throttle bodies and the cylinders
seems like it could cause interesting problems with slowing down the air flow
and delaminarizing it (straight-ish pipes like those found in cars would tend to
make the airflow become more laminar, assuming a uniform-ish flow). Would it
have the same effect if I increased the diameter of those tubes for part of the
way but kept them as straight as possible? Theoretically, I think it would but
that also might create strange harmonics with the shock waves as the propagate
back and forth through that non-uniform-diameter volume. Does anyone have some
suggested-reading links on this topic? I'm not too familiar with the nitty
gritty of using shock waves to pressurize cylinders.

I've been thinking about the MegaSquirt kit EFI computer. It seems to be pretty
darn flexible and has a very large community of active developers and tinkerers.
Lots of motorcycle applications have popped up in my googling. It also looks
like it *might* be able to support the addition of separate nitric oxide
injectors and associated separate maps. Or at least when the MS-II Sequencer
comes out (supports up to 8 separate injectors). That is desirable for later
projects ;-)

As for what I would do with all the extra room under the faux gas tank... some
sort of radio or comm unit sounds like a good idea to me. I've been looking for
a place to integrate a CB radio and maybe an amateur radio into the bike. Also
some various bike-to-bike radios (FRS, etc...) and a comm system to talk with my
passenger. Also I might put some additional switches and such on there for
auxiliary applications. One that has been interesting me for a while is an
auxiliary gas tank or two in the trunk (removable, of course) for those days
when you don't want to stop for eight hours. It would be fun to have a
cross-feed circuit to balance fuel in the rear auxiliary tanks while riding.
Who needs an airplane when you have a PC800!

Keep the thoughts and tips coming! This is great for my education and the
eventual finished product. With any luck, this process will be easy enough and
well-documented enough that others will be able to convert their PCs without too
much headache. After that, there won't be any reason to go out and buy an
NT-700 or other fancy fuel-injected bike. The PC will have it ALL (except ABS)!

Cheers,

Douglas

--- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, "Lizard Lips" <tgreenw900@...> wrote:
>
> This is an interesting thread. I think that for a direct injection to work you
would have to force air into the engine via a super charger or blower box like
on a 2 cycle GM Detroit Diesel.
>
> My thought was to port a NT700 EFI to a PC800.......I drove the Fury Shadow
and was not that impressed with it but the EFI and operation of the NT700 to me
seemed a lot smoother but I that was just my impression. If the NT had an intake
manifold that would fit on the PC800? I think that twin plugs are a desirable
feature especially with EFI
>
>
>
> I got side tracked to the Triumph Bonnieville and ended up buying a new
bright red Thunderbird 1600, it has EFI and dual plugs and is the ultimate
cruiser with a very upright PC riding position but you can flat foot it...but
this is way off topic. Still I see the advantage of EFI-this 1600cc twin gets
about 55mpg if you drive like a grandmother (guilty).
>
>
> I still am looking for another PC and would love to make it EFI.....for the
next 3 months I am working inside a shipyard with a high tech. You guys are on
to something great here.
> computer fabrication capability. I will be looking for a PC to leave up in
Upper Lower Michigan to replace my Shadow 750-my hip replacement low bike.
>
> Keep up the good work
>
> Capt T
> Shadow Aero 750
> Suzuki S50 Boulevard
> Triumph Thunderbird 1600
>
>
>
>
> --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, "sr139fox" <sr139fox@> wrote:
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > I am not an engineer, but would it work to take out one of the spark plugs
and replace it with a fuel injector? We have 2 spark plugs. It would be much
simpler and might work. Like a direct injector on a diesel.
> >
> > Dave P.
> >
> > --- In ipcrc@yahoogroups.com, "douglasvanb" <douglas.vanbossuyt@> wrote:
> > >
> > > It's started... I've begun my research on adding fuel injection to a PC.
From what I've seen so far, it is possible. It will take determination, money,
and me being crazy enough to subject my poor PC's engine to some
experimentation.
> > >
> > > As the new Honda Shadow VT750S has fuel injection on-board, swapping that
system onto a PC seems promising. The VT750 shares heritage with our PC800
engines. I was looking at the parts microfiche for our bikes and a VT750S.
Everything on the engine up to where the carbs would bolt on looks the same
(ignoring ours being tuned more "sportily").
> > >
> > > Does anyone have a new VT750S who would be willing to look at the bike and
take some measurements for me? Specifically, the carb insulator boots (or I
guess these would be fuel injector insulator boots?) interest me. They have
different part numbers (PC800: 16211-MR5-670 vs VT750S: 16211-MFE-640).
However, looking at the microfiche they sure do look similar. The big question
is if the tubes that lead into the cylinders are the same size between the
bikes. (Basically where #7 is pointing
http://www.directcon.net/lcshepp/PC800SMPage5-4.html )
> > >
> > > If they were the same, then it becomes much more reasonable to pursue
using the VT750S fuel injection system. PowerCommander already makes a unit
that will interface with the VT750S Honda ECU which will allow tuning for the
higher RPMs that our bikes use.
> > >
> > > Otherwise, there are several companies that make custom fuel injection
systems or I could do it myself and learn the black arts of fuel management.
Obviously, I'd prefer sticking with Mother Honda, even if the parts weren't
exactly made for our bikes.
> > >
> > > All food for thought anyway...
> > >
> > > Cheers!
> > >
> > > Douglas
> > >
> >
>